Curse

Big_Iron · Feb 23, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Wow! You know, I won’t hesitate to call B.S. on Anet when I think they’re wrong. But RoT too hard? Okay guys, I’m a very average player…VERY average. Yet, I completed the game with a Derv using only heroes and henchies and completed it before anyone in my guild…which has over 90 members. I’m not bragging, it’s just a fact. Average players don’t have much to brag about. When I first got to RoT, yeah, I said to myself, “Crap! This is hard!” Then, you know what? I made adjustments and finished the game. I find it shocking that an experienced gamer would call RoT “too hard.” Is it more challenging than the rest of the game? Absolutely, but it’s supposed to be. Any gamer knows that a game is more challenging as you progress through it. Otherwise, it would be extremely boring. Could the rewards be better? Sure, but that’s not why I play the game. I play it for the story and the satisfaction of completing a challenging game.

I don’t read Games for Windows either, so I don’t know this guy. I DO read PC Gamer and it gave Nightfall it’s MMO of the Year award and one of its editors, Kristen Salvatore, loves the game. Maybe she can give this guy a few tips.

darktyco · Feb 23, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

I found getting access to RoT after completing Nightfall a big disappointment. Why? Simply because I did most of the missions in Nf with my hero/hench team and that's not possible in RoT.

I did RoT with all heroes/hench on my Necro, and did it mostly so with my Monk and Dervish. It might be harder as one class over another, but it is possible.

freekedoutfish · Feb 23, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

Wow! You know, I won’t hesitate to call B.S. on Anet when I think they’re wrong. But RoT too hard? Okay guys, I’m a very average player…VERY average. Yet, I completed the game with a Derv using only heroes and henchies and completed it before anyone in my guild…which has over 90 members. I’m not bragging, it’s just a fact. Average players don’t have much to brag about. When I first got to RoT, yeah, I said to myself, “Crap! This is hard!” Then, you know what? I made adjustments and finished the game. I find it shocking that an experienced gamer would call RoT “too hard.” Is it more challenging than the rest of the game? Absolutely, but it’s supposed to be. Any gamer knows that a game is more challenging as you progress through it. Otherwise, it would be extremely boring. Could the rewards be better? Sure, but that’s not why I play the game. I play it for the story and the satisfaction of completing a challenging game.

I don’t read Games for Windows either, so I don’t know this guy. I DO read PC Gamer and it gave Nightfall it’s MMO of the Year award and one of its editors, Kristen Salvatore, loves the game. Maybe she can give this guy a few tips.

No ones saying the game isnt amazing and none of the posters have said they didnt get through ROT and complete the game. I didnt like that zone as I mentioned, I hate it, its basically crap.

But I completed it with henches and heroes too.

But I still personally say its badly done.

mazter · Feb 23, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

Wow! You know, I won’t hesitate to call B.S. on Anet when I think they’re wrong. But RoT too hard? Okay guys, I’m a very average player…VERY average. Yet, I completed the game with a Derv using only heroes and henchies and completed it before anyone in my guild…which has over 90 members. I’m not bragging, it’s just a fact. Average players don’t have much to brag about. When I first got to RoT, yeah, I said to myself, “Crap! This is hard!” Then, you know what? I made adjustments and finished the game. I find it shocking that an experienced gamer would call RoT “too hard.” Is it more challenging than the rest of the game? Absolutely, but it’s supposed to be. Any gamer knows that a game is more challenging as you progress through it. Otherwise, it would be extremely boring. Could the rewards be better? Sure, but that’s not why I play the game. I play it for the story and the satisfaction of completing a challenging game.

I don’t read Games for Windows either, so I don’t know this guy. I DO read PC Gamer and it gave Nightfall it’s MMO of the Year award and one of its editors, Kristen Salvatore, loves the game. Maybe she can give this guy a few tips.

/clap

all i had to say

theamazingfish · Feb 23, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I have been playing seince the start.

Im done supporting guild wars and im done supporting a company like anet.

Today i purchased world of warcraft after a nice free demo.. i got another thirty days for free and im having more fun now than i ever had in gw..

This artical is the truth. i had gotten burned out.. then came back to gw after about two and a half months.. but even then any need to play the game was gone..

Keep in mind the nightfall release was still relativly new.. only about a month or two under its belt..

guild wars has gotten stale to alot of people.. but it remains fresh to so many others..

one thing is for sure about this whole thing.. anet needs to learn to make a lasting game.

Because if they preach every chapter they make as a standalone game.. then they should have enough content to keep players busy and happy for more than six months at a time..

Some people say that six months is plenty.. but in a market driven by games like oblivion, wow, runescape, and whatever else... six months is just enough to pull in last place.

Antheus · Feb 23, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

When NF launched, masses cried out that Shiro was impossible. People were, and still are, paying up to 50k to be ran through mission. On a few ocasions I even obliged. I mean, so much money for 20 minutes of a no-death mission.

It's same with RoT. Those that consider it too hard don't look why it apears hard.

Just like THK. Some players never could do that mission. Even after it got nerfed over and over again, some still couldn't do it. That doesn't make the mission too hard.

crazyFanatic · Feb 23, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

IMO he is just a raging noob

Why play in the realm of torment if he cant handle the mobs?

mqstout · Feb 23, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by theamazingfish

Some people say that six months is plenty.. but in a market driven by games like oblivion, wow, runescape, and whatever else... six months is just enough to pull in last place.

Guild Wars easily takes many months to complete. None of those I play with ever completed Factions until a week or two before Nightfall came out (with ONE character). For Nightfall, we're still taking our first characters through it, and are still in Vabbi. I would not doubt at all that we are in the majority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

When NF launched, masses cried out that Shiro was impossible. People were, and still are, paying up to 50k to be ran through mission. On a few ocasions I even obliged. I mean, so much money for 20 minutes of a no-death mission.

Because it's true. Shiro is an impossibly hard encounter unless you take gimicky builds from the community. The average player in the average party, with a mix of the various types of skills from the game will have practically no chance of beating him. Instead, you need to join up with a party of all warriors with Wild Blow, or whatever it is, just go get by him. Where is there fun or real challenge in that? People like to play the game -- not be told how they have to play the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Just like THK. Some players never could do that mission. Even after it got nerfed over and over again, some still couldn't do it. That doesn't make the mission too hard.

THK is a great mission. The only problem with it for most, surely, is operating under split conditions. It's a good think-outside-the-box mission, EXCEPT it actually still can be completed without reverting to gimicky andor cookie-cutter builds. I'd actually dare say it's harder since the nerfs, since the mobs never seem to go near the artillery range anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyFanatic

Why play in the realm of torment if he cant handle the mobs?

You have to, to complete the game?

Hengis · Feb 23, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyFanatic

IMO he is just a raging noob

Why play in the realm of torment if he cant handle the mobs?

I think again there is confusion over The Realm of Torment and The Domain of Anguish.

RoT is an area you need to complete in order to finish the game. DoA is the elite area accessible only once you have completed the game.

I have finished the game on three characters (Ranger, Necro, Elementalist) and never found RoT to be overly difficult.

DoA however is another matter. Been there, tried that, didn't enjoy it one little bit, so I just don't go there anymore.

There is plenty more to do in the game, so I just don't do the one thing I didnt enjoy doing.

crazyFanatic · Feb 23, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

You have to, to complete the game?

And what the hell are these quests good for? They aren't even tagged as "master" level quests, even though they're a hell of a lot harder than plenty of other quests that bear the "master" tag. No, they just give the standard 2,500 XP/200 gold reward. Oh boy!

I believe he is talking about side quest's

Kakumei · Feb 23, 2007, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Guild Wars easily takes many months to complete. None of those I play with ever completed Factions until a week or two before Nightfall came out (with ONE character). For Nightfall, we're still taking our first characters through it, and are still in Vabbi. I would not doubt at all that we are in the majority.

Do you rarely play, or do you just suck a lot? Likely the former, I'm merely curious.

Quote:

Because it's true. Shiro is an impossibly hard encounter unless you take gimicky builds from the community.

Bringing a single skill--hell, you even have a choice of three (Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw)--does not a gimmicky build make.

Hyperbole proves nothing, and is pretty worthless in a discussion.

Pandora's box · Feb 23, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by darktyco

I did RoT with all heroes/hench on my Necro, and did it mostly so with my Monk and Dervish. It might be harder as one class over another, but it is possible.

My bad. Mixed up RoT and DOA. Corrected it

cthulhu reborn · Feb 23, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

THK is a great mission. The only problem with it for most, surely, is operating under split conditions. It's a good think-outside-the-box mission, EXCEPT it actually still can be completed without reverting to gimicky andor cookie-cutter builds. I'd actually dare say it's harder since the nerfs, since the mobs never seem to go near the artillery range anymore.

Actually the best and easiest way to do THK is to not split up but to stay upstairs near king together and attack bosses last unless he's a monk.

Monks have it easier that way and ranger can trap stairs. I never failed THK with that strategy.

Back to RoT now...

A very good point here is the lack of proper rewards...what is the point of an inscribed secret or those ancient artifacts or wahtever if it gets you the same as you get from the smugglers at the command post for those kournan coins. That was such a disappointment to find out. The DoA golds (be it at a ridiculous cost) are more like it if you ask me. RoT should've had that. Why do all my characters finish Elona and Cantha? Cause even after finishing it x amount of times I can still get a reward with my next character: an endgame green. Guess why half my characters haven't finished Prophecies...exactly, no reward.

And what do you get out of finishing the RoT quests? Nada, basically. Instead of throwing tons of rare skins out through the chests and occasional drops, why not get another cool one that you can actually earn...now there's a concept. I find the DoA ones very expensive...but I still want one. I find DoA unplayable so I will just save a lot of money/gems so I can get me an armbrace but I want it.

I think each area (in NF being Istan, Kourna, Vabbi, Desolation, RoT) should have golds like DoA that you can earn by doing the local quests. I don't mind having to do some effort for it but just give me a reason to do it.

garethporlest18 · Feb 23, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Guild Wars easily takes many months to complete. None of those I play with ever completed Factions until a week or two before Nightfall came out (with ONE character). For Nightfall, we're still taking our first characters through it, and are still in Vabbi. I would not doubt at all that we are in the majority.

I think it takes a tad shorter than that, 95% of the people I know have beaten the game with 3+ characters already. Half of this forum has or has beaten with at least one. So no I think you're not in the majority. I beat it in ..what 1 1/2 days? I could have not played hardcore and beaten it in 4, exploring and enjoying all the scenery, like I did after.

Quote:

Because it's true. Shiro is an impossibly hard encounter unless you take gimicky builds from the community. The average player in the average party, with a mix of the various types of skills from the game will have practically no chance of beating him. Instead, you need to join up with a party of all warriors with Wild Blow, or whatever it is, just go get by him. Where is there fun or real challenge in that? People like to play the game -- not be told how they have to play the game.

Shiro is laughably easy, I beat him as one of the first of 100 or so to make it that far right away, with just my heros and henchies, using Gladiator's Defense and Shield Stance and he went down, I thought nothing of it. Probably because I had RC Prot monk with me and 2 other monks, I don't know. But no he's not hard, people just don't always bring the exact right skills

I will go further to say that, it's not the difficulty of one mob in RoT, I beat the missions easily enough. It's the tight packing and you ending up having to face 12 monsters instead of 6, because they aggro into you. Granted I've come out alive in a few of those encounters, but it's nice easy, especially since...heros and henchies don't attack when the torment creatures use Call of Torment unless you're attacking and sometimes they don't even attack when you do. So it just gets really tedious after a while.

I cleared every area, except Domain of Fear because it's ridiculously hard with all the tight packed groups. There are over 9 groups right outside the entrance, in that open area there..all with patrol movements that aggro into another patrol and a nice little ele boss that can wipe your team in under 10 seconds unless you're prepared for it (if you have DP, one spell= your whole team annihilated). I barely made it past that, then you have more bosses and patrols that overlap, stupid idea in my opinion because they don't pull very good either, especially when you have a 11 second Mind Freeze on you.

So I tried that area with the UW/Tombs monsters. Even worse. The monsters pop up out of no where unless you know when it's gonna happen you can be messed up totally. You can barely aggro any of the MS casters (sometimes if they get off an MS, you're done for because herohenchies stand right in it) without aggroing another set and it's a big friggin hassle. Even with LB it's just too much to be exciting fun or even an area I want to go to ever again. I considered deleting all my other characters who haven't gone through this area which would be an extreme waste of money, so I won't do it. But I'm very tempted as I dread this place.

Domain of Secrets I clear that place while blind, at least the Margonite/Menzie area. When it comes to Titans, you'll die because Hero/henchies are so brilliant to run right up to you (if you're a warrior/melee) and they get annihilated by the Madness' aoe attacks. So yeah I think some things need to be worked out with that. On top of that the Madness are grossly overpowered. Mystic Regen, Mirage Cloak..and you can't hit them ever because they always have 15 Energy when they need it. I can only bring 3 hero's so a mesmer with Shatter or a necro with strip that can actually get the non covered Mirage Cloak (rare when it happens) don't happen and I cannot make room for a mesmer, which would be a waste of energy because as soon as you strip it, he puts it back up because he has unlimited energy I guess. On top of that it's a 1/2 second cast time or 3/4 not sure. But hardly interruptible on purpose. I get lucky with an LB placed at the right time or spamming interrupts..but that doesn't always work wanna know why?

Because in this area, things cost 40% more energy! So you'll be soon out of energy with your ranger, just as your monks are spamming to heal you from Titan's deadly AoE attacks. So yeah I like that area, but I get really frustrated when having to fight those Titans. Sometimes it's good, most of the time it's not.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 23, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

THK is a great mission. The only problem with it for most, surely, is operating under split conditions. It's a good think-outside-the-box mission, EXCEPT it actually still can be completed without reverting to gimicky andor cookie-cutter builds. I'd actually dare say it's harder since the nerfs, since the mobs never seem to go near the artillery range anymore.

Actually the best and easiest way to do THK is to not split up but to stay upstairs near king together and attack bosses last unless he's a monk.

Monks have it easier that way and ranger can trap stairs. I never failed THK with that strategy.

Back to RoT now...

A very good point here is the lack of proper rewards...what is the point of an inscribed secret or those ancient artifacts or wahtever if it gets you the same as you get from the smugglers at the command post for those kournan coins. That was such a disappointment to find out. The DoA golds (be it at a ridiculous cost) are more like it if you ask me. RoT should've had that. Why do all my characters finish Elona and Cantha? Cause even after finishing it x amount of times I can still get a reward with my next character: an endgame green. Guess why half my characters haven't finished Prophecies...exactly, no reward.

And what do you get out of finishing the RoT quests? Nada, basically. Instead of throwing tons of rare skins out through the chests and occasional drops, why not get another cool one that you can actually earn...now there's a concept. I find the DoA ones very expensive...but I still want one. I find DoA unplayable so I will just save a lot of money/gems so I can get me an armbrace but I want it.

I think each area (in NF being Istan, Kourna, Vabbi, Desolation, RoT) should have golds like DoA that you can earn by doing the local quests. I don't mind having to do some effort for it but just give me a reason to do it.

garethporlest18 · Feb 23, 2007, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

Guild Wars easily takes many months to complete. None of those I play with ever completed Factions until a week or two before Nightfall came out (with ONE character). For Nightfall, we're still taking our first characters through it, and are still in Vabbi. I would not doubt at all that we are in the majority.

I think it takes a tad shorter than that, 95% of the people I know have beaten the game with 3+ characters already. Half of this forum has or has beaten with at least one. So no I think you're not in the majority. I beat it in ..what 1 1/2 days? I could have not played hardcore and beaten it in 4, exploring and enjoying all the scenery, like I did after.

Quote:

Because it's true. Shiro is an impossibly hard encounter unless you take gimicky builds from the community. The average player in the average party, with a mix of the various types of skills from the game will have practically no chance of beating him. Instead, you need to join up with a party of all warriors with Wild Blow, or whatever it is, just go get by him. Where is there fun or real challenge in that? People like to play the game -- not be told how they have to play the game.

Shiro is laughably easy, I beat him as one of the first of 100 or so to make it that far right away, with just my heros and henchies, using Gladiator's Defense and Shield Stance and he went down, I thought nothing of it. Probably because I had RC Prot monk with me and 2 other monks, I don't know. But no he's not hard, people just don't always bring the exact right skills

I will go further to say that, it's not the difficulty of one mob in RoT, I beat the missions easily enough. It's the tight packing and you ending up having to face 12 monsters instead of 6, because they aggro into you. Granted I've come out alive in a few of those encounters, but it's nice easy, especially since...heros and henchies don't attack when the torment creatures use Call of Torment unless you're attacking and sometimes they don't even attack when you do. So it just gets really tedious after a while.

I cleared every area, except Domain of Fear because it's ridiculously hard with all the tight packed groups. There are over 9 groups right outside the entrance, in that open area there..all with patrol movements that aggro into another patrol and a nice little ele boss that can wipe your team in under 10 seconds unless you're prepared for it (if you have DP, one spell= your whole team annihilated). I barely made it past that, then you have more bosses and patrols that overlap, stupid idea in my opinion because they don't pull very good either, especially when you have a 11 second Mind Freeze on you.

So I tried that area with the UW/Tombs monsters. Even worse. The monsters pop up out of no where unless you know when it's gonna happen you can be messed up totally. You can barely aggro any of the MS casters (sometimes if they get off an MS, you're done for because herohenchies stand right in it) without aggroing another set and it's a big friggin hassle. Even with LB it's just too much to be exciting fun or even an area I want to go to ever again. I considered deleting all my other characters who haven't gone through this area which would be an extreme waste of money, so I won't do it. But I'm very tempted as I dread this place.

Domain of Secrets I clear that place while blind, at least the Margonite/Menzie area. When it comes to Titans, you'll die because Hero/henchies are so brilliant to run right up to you (if you're a warrior/melee) and they get annihilated by the Madness' aoe attacks. So yeah I think some things need to be worked out with that. On top of that the Madness are grossly overpowered. Mystic Regen, Mirage Cloak..and you can't hit them ever because they always have 15 Energy when they need it. I can only bring 3 hero's so a mesmer with Shatter or a necro with strip that can actually get the non covered Mirage Cloak (rare when it happens) don't happen and I cannot make room for a mesmer, which would be a waste of energy because as soon as you strip it, he puts it back up because he has unlimited energy I guess. On top of that it's a 1/2 second cast time or 3/4 not sure. But hardly interruptible on purpose. I get lucky with an LB placed at the right time or spamming interrupts..but that doesn't always work wanna know why?

Because in this area, things cost 40% more energy! So you'll be soon out of energy with your ranger, just as your monks are spamming to heal you from Titan's deadly AoE attacks. So yeah I like that area, but I get really frustrated when having to fight those Titans. Sometimes it's good, most of the time it's not.

Allanon754 · Feb 23, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Tsk tsk tsk, and I thought Ryan Scott was one of the best writers at GFW (Formerly Computer Gaming World). The problem with Guild Wars PvE usually isn't the difficulty or monsters, it's the people that play the game. Sadly over 50% of the time I join a pub group I have the same horrid experiences over, and over, and over. People who are immature and draw parts of the human anatomy on the map and then leave after dying, monks who fight, people who don't listen, people who rush, ele's who take damage so they can set off some Flame AoE, the list goes on and on. While I am in a Guild there are times where I wish I could simply get on and do say, V-square (though I normally hate Cantha) with random people.

I think however that DoA is a little to hard as he says, for the little reward that you get. As XP does not matter in GW they should give you more items, or, say, more skills. Here's hoping that the high-end missions in chapter 4 are better.

jereiter · Feb 23, 2007, 04:46 PM // 16:46

The problem with this area has not been stated clearly so far it seems. The area is not that hard. But all the drops you can collect there are collectable drops or some money. Sometimes, if you get lucky, you'll have a 8-36 blue scythe.

Mr_T_bot · Feb 23, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Bringing a single skill--hell, you even have a choice of three (Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw)--does not a gimmicky build make..

But 3 skills out of more than a hundred skill repertoire does a pigeon-holed build make.

Rodhin Kinning · Feb 23, 2007, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Hmm our own little Flame Wars. (Maybe thats what we should call these forums. "Flame Wars")

Please to disagree with someone is one thing but the just flame them because you can is another. How hard is it just to say "I disagree RoT is not that hard of an area to me."?